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Apr 23
2010

“Games Companies Play”

Posted by: Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal

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4.7 (14)

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal

Buyer’s Guide: How to buy a good Ultrasound Scanner.

After spending a decade in medical college and acquiring the much sought after degree of M.D. Radio-Diagnosis a young radiologist has two options:

  1. Go and join some Job.
  2. Start his own Clinic.

First option is relatively easy one and one does not have to worry about finances and other problems like getting the patients and buying Machines.

Second option is difficult preposition, as one has to face the problem of arranging the finances and buying the equipments which can be a tiring phase during the initial months.

It is that period when you finally decided to open a centre for yourself and started looking for Machine after arranging a site for your clinic. You send a signal and the representative of various companies start a bee line to you. They give you so many options, that you get confused. Every one will speak a language which you will find either Greek or Latin. This is not you have studied in your degree. There are so many confusing terms developed by individual companies to confuse customer. Like cross beam technology, Matrix probes or Aplipre, Advance Dynamic Flow, Quick view & Iassist etc.

The companies will send representatives they will speak a lot but will not give you some thing like “Factsheet” or “DATASHEET” in writing. Most of their commitment will be verbal only and the sales person will show his personal commitment to fulfill promises.

One should be very careful in dealing with companies and do not rely upon verbal assurances. One thing you will notice that all the brochure will have more of pictures and less about the machine. The Datasheet is a fact sheet every company should provide with brochure.

I tell you my recent harrowing experiences related with buying ultrasound machine for myself. So many companies visited me and showed their equipments, the machines I liked were out of my budget preview.

Then Toshiba people offered me Xario Machine claiming that this machine is a Demonstration unit and about 1.5 years old and they offered me this machine with four new probes viz. Convex, Linear, Endovaginal and Cardiac Probe. With complete package having Aplipure, Trapiziod scan, Tissue harmonic Package, Panoramic View, 3-D Imaging and Broad beam former etc. with 2kVA Online UPS (Tata Libert) with Sony Digital Thermal Printer and 2 years of Warranty for 12 lac of price. Though I wanted a new machine but this configuration was good bargain.

I went for it though their competitors warned me that the Xario has only a few installation bases due to its fragile equipment and Poor service network. I ignored their warning as I thought Toshiba is a good company and I was given 2 years of warranty. I gave my nod to buy the machine on 30th Jan 2010 with an advance of 1.5 lac. I also asked some genuine questions like

  1. What is the actual age of the machine?
  2. Is it a true demo machine or a refurbished old machine?
  3. Will the parts and service be available for 10 years?
  4. What will be the machine up time guarantee?
  5. What is complaint redressal system?
  6. Will you provide me a stand by machine in case of break down more than 24 hours?

They sought some time answer and to install the machine within 2-3 weeks time. But the company defaulted this time saying that some parts were missing from the machine and being imported. They were mum and not coming clear on it and only verbal assurances were given. They did not show me the age proof.

Then they insisted that I should remove penalty clause in my purchase order which was “ in case of break down of more that 24 hours, the company will provide me a comparable standby unit and if the company fails to provide support the company shall pay me Rs 10000/- per day as compensation and the warranty shall extend accordingly”. I told them this clause will be applicable only when the company defaults, if you are assuring me a good after sales service then what is need to panic about the clause. But they insisted that I should remove the clause, perhaps in their inner mind they knew that they could not come clean on this. I deleted the clause keeping my fingers crossed.

Finally they installed the machine but the machine was not working properly as it needed two more probes as in order, Thermal printer and some parts to be replaced. They sent their engineers to rectify it and the machine collapsed all together. It refuses to even start. They told me that it needed to be moved to Delhi for repairs, I agreed and asked for a standby machine, which they flatly refused.

I was shocked that the company is dragging its feet from their written commitments, especially when the full payment is not yet made. I had my worst fears coming true before me. I again requested but they refused saying that we do not have any stand by units; I asked them “This is my new centre and I can not keep it shut for the days you will take for repair.” They didn’t seem to bother about it, and finally I had to cancel my order.

Than I had to search for another machine in emergency and place a new order. And finally installed ALOKA SSD4000 for Rs 14 Lac for 4 probes and one UPS.

Friends I have written this blog to aware our Radiologists to the tricks of the companies and evolving a transparent system to help ourselves.


I have already written about the need of Grading System about the comparison and features of the Machines and their cost effectiveness. I wish IRADIX could do something about it. I can shoulder the responsibility entrusted on me.




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“Games Companies Play” 2010-05-09 03:08:32 garima
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Reviewed by garima    May 09, 2010

games companies play

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“Games Companies Play” 2010-04-30 17:11:50 Dr. Sanghasheel Jumle
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Dr. Sanghasheel Jumle Reviewed by Dr. Sanghasheel Jumle    April 30, 2010
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“Games Companies Play” 2010-04-27 18:27:37 Dr. Rahul Sinha
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Dr. Rahul Sinha Reviewed by Dr. Rahul Sinha    April 27, 2010
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“Games Companies Play” 2010-04-27 17:01:41 visakhprasad
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Reviewed by visakhprasad    April 27, 2010

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“Games Companies Play” 2010-04-27 05:47:00 Dr. Akash Hajariwala
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Reviewed by Dr. Akash Hajariwala    April 27, 2010

Buyer’s Guide: How to buy a good Ultrasound Scanne

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Comments (23)add comment

Dr.Shephy.K. Ummer said:

Dr.Shephy.K. Ummer
...
i think this is applicable to all companies. they will show you a good machine mean same model, but deliver you a machine with different performance level, result you are being fooled..!!!this happened with voluson PRO.. Finally how ALOKA is doing? are you happy with it? Atleast you came out of it before fully succumbed, sorry for those who fully trapped.
IMA Kerala ( i dnt knw about other states) has wing of PEPS ( Professional equipment protection scheme) where they deal with equipments and various companies have been blacklisted, but still radiology equipments are purchased by non medico / management they are reluctant to register in these committies.
Hope Iradix and its team will come up with some solution or help
 
April 24, 2010
Votes: +1

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal said:

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal
...
Dear Shephy,
you are right but we should resist it and end this game by all together. we have to form a group and air our views. we should make this site a common reference point and redressal forum. We should compare the machines like Naaptol.com, Compareindia.com does. and give our fellow radiologists and other institutional buyers a good reference. we should also grade the machines as per their reliability and service network.

aloka machine grey scale is good but the features are not very user friendly.Machins is sturdy as my close freinds are using it.

Toshiba people have very bad reputation for their service. they do not have any backup system and do not have spare parts also. i have talked to the india service chief too Mr. Pandyan befor cancelling the order. I have also talked to Mr Nsotomatsu the owner/chief india operations Erbis engineering co. Ltd. but he could also not help me out. Then what will any body else will offer.

your suggestions are welcome on this forum.I am waiting feed back from all of our members.


 
April 24, 2010
Votes: +1

DR.J.P.SHARMA said:

0
...
the magic is such that the machines/probes/accessories break down inthe warranty period itself and there is no stand by and the repair may take even months and there is no way to get compensated for the losses.
a committee is to be formed by the radiologists and all the purchases and repairs should be intimated to this body.so,that
action can be taken and companies coming clean should be given preference and support in their sales.
some sort of fine has to be decided by the committee if complaints are received against them.
i am also facing a problem with new fuji cr system-some sort of soft ware problem which they pretend to rectify for the pastr 8 months.
 
April 25, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr.Deepak Padhi said:

0
...
Dr.S.S.Goyal has very rightly put in his words.The best part is so many of our Radiologists get cheated day in and out by the companies but he has taken an initiative to make we Radiologists aware of such incidents for our benefit in fora like "Iradix".

Thank u Sir.
 
April 25, 2010
Votes: +0

Team Iradix said:

Team Iradix
...
Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal: I wish IRADIX could do something about it.

Dr.Shephy.K. Ummer: Hope Iradix and its team will come up with some solution or help
Dr.Deepak Padhi: but he has taken an initiative to make we Radiologists aware of such incidents for our benefit in fora like "Iradix".


iRADiX is listening!

As an extension to ongoing discussion, we have come with NOVEL Solution of Grading Companies based on User Votes - The NEW user based POLL system.

Participate in this Poll by voting for the Ultrasound Company offering Best Service by visiting following link:

http://www.iradix.in/Polls/vie...rvice.htmlsmilies/kiss.gif
 
April 25, 2010
Votes: +0

Alok Varshney said:

Alok Varshney
...
‘Sasta roye baar baar; mehenga roye ek baar.’

Buying cheap will make you cry again and again, buying expensive will make you cry only once.

It is the business of medical equipment companies to sell equipment. Sales people will lie, make false promises or do anything possible to secure business. They don’t care your center runs or not, they just want the sale and for them a buyer is just a target. One should always anticipate getting shortchanged by the companies, unless proven otherwise. And written contracts, which are not enforceable, are not even worth the paper they are printed on.

In some measure we ourselves are also to blame for this. The Indian genes demand the best bargain and rock bottom prices; quality is almost always a secondary issue. A vendor faced with such a market adapts by selling inferior quality product or by cutting after-sales services. Toshiba is not the only offender. Take any Indian/ multinational company selling any product, you will find complaints galore.

Perhaps the only way to deal with such breaches of contracts is the threat of blacklisting/ adverse publicity.
 
April 27, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal said:

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal
...
Dear Alok,

'Perhaps the only way to deal with such breaches of contracts is the threat of blacklisting/ adverse publicity.'

this is the only way to put a deterrent on the mischievous moves of the companies. Companies do not care for individuals but they are afraid of a forum or association's adverse opinion. Lets come together and help ourselves.
 
April 28, 2010
Votes: +0

Anuj Mishra said:

Anuj Mishra
...
What about the role of Indian Radiological association (IRIA)? Should'nt this body take measures to curb this malpractice?? Anyone listening???
 
April 28, 2010
Votes: +0

Anuj Mishra said:

Anuj Mishra
...
I too have suffered in the hands of Erbis engg. co. ltd. when I bought my first CT scanner from them. I have no regrets with Toshiba and I admit, and I hope my colleagues will too, that Toshiba equipment is one of the best in the industry.
It is the dealer in India who is to be blamed as he is tarnishing the image of Toshiba in India.
Forced by his callous attitude and misbehaviour, I had to exchange my CT scanner with Siemens. And now keeping my fingers crossed.........
 
April 28, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Saneej Kanhirat said:

Dr. Saneej Kanhirat
...
Dear Friends,
I am also thinking of starting a centre. The above comments were an eye opener. Now I am confused.
Dear Sheffy can you explain about IMA's protection scheme?
Dear friends , Anybody has experience with Philips machines? how is there service?
 
April 29, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal said:

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal
...
PHILLIPS MACHINES ARE GOOD BUT AGAIN SERVICE IS NO GURANTEE.
 
April 29, 2010
Votes: +0

Dileep Bhale said:

Dileep Bhale
...
Buying ultrasound/imaging machines should be like buying a car.
You know the manufacturers and available models and also the variants in each model. You also know the ex-showroom and on-road price of each one in each state. You have a clear idea of the features and specs of each one. There may be some occasional discounts or free spares by the dealer or some special loan schemes.
Why should you not have the same thing for imaging equipment?
One most important thing is every radiologist should openly declare the price he paid for his machine. Don't fall for, "Doctor don't disclose the price, it is a very special deal exclusively for you!"
 
May 05, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal said:

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal
...
Yes thats why i have written in detail about the deals. i have gone through. All readers are requested to kindly declare the deals they have done with the companies.

Than our efforts will bear fruits.
 
May 05, 2010
Votes: +0

Dileep Bhale said:

Dileep Bhale
...
I got my GE Logiq P5 Premium Edition for 23.00 L in Nov 2006. It was one of the 1st 5 units sold by GE. It is with 3 conventional, convex, TV and linear probes and 1 convex volume probe. The deal included buy-back of my 2 years old Logiq 5. Within a year or so it was being sold for 19-20 L. So one conclusion is don't go for a machine that has been recently introduced. Let it be in the market for 2 - 3 years.
 
May 05, 2010
Votes: +1

Anuj Mishra said:

Anuj Mishra
...
all the manufacturers know that Indian market is very price-sensitive.
And they try their best to quote the highest price when they begin the negotiations.
We as customers should always quote the lowest price that we can imagine for the equipment.
And as the negotiations proceed, we can expect a fair deal.
But make sure to fix to your configuration. Don't give-in by such statements " Sir, for this low price we can offer you the machine with just one probe".
I am sure every Radiologist loves to buy machines and they just have to develop their interest in bargaining too!
Happy purchasing !


 
May 05, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Sridhar V said:

Dr. Sridhar V
...
Thank you very much Dr.Shyam Sundar Goyal foryour timely article which is in fact an eye opener and makes the prospective buyer tread a cautious approach.Your article also making the Radiologists join together in one voice forgetting all their never ending mistrust among themselves.

How nice it is if only we all listen to what Dr.Dileep Bhale has said
"One most important thing is every radiologist should openly declare the price he paid for his machine"
Unfortunately most of the times our brothers misguide us regarding the price.

Your article also reminds us about the Phenomenon called 'Cheating'

Cheating in business is an art "as old as the Hills"
The formula is simple.Pressure to show greater performance combined with lure for big money in the form of comission or percentatage offered ( from the sale amount )by the companies makes the sale persons get hooked to the business of cheating. ( short term gain and Long term loss ).
Of course companies also contribute to these dirty games .

In business companies have to cheat just to keep their business alive, and globalization has resulted in tough time for Fair Play.

Cheating has become a culture of sort right from the student days.
-Student cheating in the exams
-Sport persons taking drugs
-Cheating in gambling
-Cheating in personal relationship, said to be a hot topic all the time

Business cheating thrives as long as there are people willing to be cheated.

Why blame companies and the games they play ?
What about happenings in our own backyard ? ( Cheating in Medical profession). example
Collusion between Drug companies and Doctors
Doctors compromising their profession in unethical practices.(unnecessary operations,Unwanted investigations)
Fraud happening in MCI
Doctors and Diagnostic set ups
Doctors endorsing products, the list goes on

just like we the consumers of the machines complain against the
manufactureres and suppliers about lack of transparency , patients who are the consumers for the medical professionals are complaining about lack of transparency.

In the end who is right ? Who is wrong ? Who is upholding the Principles ?

 
May 06, 2010
Votes: +1

Dr.Shephy.K. Ummer said:

Dr.Shephy.K. Ummer
...
hi
dear saneej, the person closely involved with PEPS is Dr.Santhoshkumar, radiologist in Al-shifa hospital perintalmanna, malappuram district,kerala.

unethical practice in radiology field is mainly due to cut practice...and most radiologists are against it but cant avoid to survive.

i would suggest to work in hospitals where you will get good colleauges ( if u r lucky) and follow-ups and improve yourself. you will get some peace of mind also.

disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, who has no intention to start a centre in near future.
 
May 07, 2010
Votes: +1

saneej said:

Dr. Saneej Kanhirat
...
Dear shefy
Thats a nice and peaceful idea i think.
 
May 07, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal said:

Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal
...
well said Dr Sridhar,
But at the same time we need to protect ourselves. We the doctors are usually most underprivileged one. see how much salary a Pilot is taking or for the instance an executive of a marketing company. and if you compare amount of hard work and attention our work requires and number of holidays we get. you will feel cheated and frustrated. but in the present scenario we should prevent any one taking us for a ride. why we should be at receiving ends either company or a referring doctor.

we should be at a better position in our day to day life. Only cursing will not help and we need to help ourselves.

Lets start a new journey by making a new step every day.
 
May 07, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Sridhar V said:

Dr. Sridhar V
...
Thank you Dr. Sham Sunder Goyal for your hard hitting facts.
In fact you have brought boldly , the cheating going on in the name of selling the Machine,
- At very attractive rate,don' leak this special rate
to others.
- Added freebies
- Never ending promises which are rarely kept fulfilled
- Selling old machine as Demo machine ( telling that the
machine was hardly used as demo for 2 months.)

The silent suffering by Radiologist community is really shocking.
See the intensity of union and brotherhood feeling among other communities. For example
Rail motor men can bring commuters to hell in a short span as happened in Bombay
Airlines pilots can ground the planes as and when they become fancy
Any number examples can be added.
As far as the Medical profession is concerned they say yours is a noble profession and you can not afford to go on strike.You don't dare even a union.Where is the justification ?

Now coming to your call for Unity among Radiologists is well taken.
But how successful are we in maintaining the unity in times of need or crisis ?
For example Iradix team has given a wonderful opportunity for all of us to high lighten the defect in services of various companies on
http://www.iradix.in/Polls/viewpoll/5-ultrasound-company-offering-best-service.html, but how many of us seriously utilizing the same ?

Only when there is a strong Union run by dedicated members and with unflinching support by every member.....one can start tasting the success.

Till then the whole thing is restricted within the comforts of Blogs/Discussion Forum/Discussion rooms etc.......
 
May 07, 2010
Votes: +0

Dr. Saneej Kanhirat said:

Dr. Saneej Kanhirat
...
We ar reallu an un united group. Hard work. Less pay. less holidays. less pleasure. less family health.. less mental health
 
May 07, 2010
Votes: +1

nishant gupta said:

nishant gupta
...
very nice article
 
November 03, 2010
Votes: +0

dr.sonal said:

0
...
very nice, mind enlightining words from dr.sridhar,dr .goyal.
sir ,i own a philips hd 7 ultrasound machine ....which had a one year warranty and two years of amc...as i am entering the second year very soon i would like you to throw some light on the technical aspects of insurance policies...is it mandatory in the second year ...also i was promised during the purchase order that i will be given a basic 3 d software....but past one year they are just post poning the issue on some pretext or the other....kindly suggest.smilies/smiley.gif
 
August 09, 2011
Votes: +0

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