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Feb 11
2010
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Doppler traces and Technical ThresholdsPosted by: Prashant Bhatt on Feb 11, 2010 |
Doppler traces and Technical Thresholds
In previous entries we examined some issues arising from X-ray (Please Repeat), CT scan (high resolution), and Ultrasound (Snowstorms). Let us examine some other quality issues using the tool of “Technical Review Meeting” in the web world. Hopefully these will be applied practically. Feedback from readers regarding their experiences, pitfalls and lessons learnt will help improve the common pool of knowledge.
A fresh understanding of particulars
If a source is emitting sound waves, the frequency of reflected sound from an object in its path increases or decreases if the object is moving towards or away from the source respectively. This is the Doppler Effect (Christian Andreas Doppler-1803-1863), an Austrian mathematician) and the change in frequency is the Doppler Shift. (1)
In one of the forum discussions of IRADIX a question was asked, whether you use the Doppler mode while doing a routine ultrasound. In previous blog we had seen some Snowstorm-PRF issues. As told earlier, many vendors have targeted clinical departments as their market to sell them imaging equipments. This has led to increase in Quackery and some erosion of ‘Radiologists’ ground.
The positive outcome of this could be that we have to raise our bar so that they will still require us. It also made me reflect on the nature of sensation (Vico), reflection, education (Rousseau’s Emile) and remember the words of Francis Bacon
“The true business of philosophy must be...to apply the understanding...to a fresh understanding of particulars” (Novum Organum-1620)
Examining some liver particulars one Old Fox remarked
“I tell these self-styled experts to just show me the trace of the branches of the hepatic artery. That settles the issue for most of them”.
Most private imaging departments keep an experienced MRI person to standardize the reporting and scanning protocols. What they do to them after they think that their work is over is another issue.
A Business model
Get an established experienced radiologist to start your set-up, establish all the reporting and scanning protocols, train the technicians, take some good lectures demonstrations of your centre and after your centre has been established in the market, you can keep two juniors for almost the same salary which you pay this fellow. Once the consultants are there in your commission-circuit, you need not worry about things. This “business-model’ is being applied by even some senior doctors who tend to get increasingly rude with the radiologists who toil to establish the reputation of the new centres, once they feel that their work is done.
(For a more detailed nuanced narrative –
See Blog: The Bazaar: Reporting versus Consultation: Trends of Commoditization)
This journey of setting the protocols, examining the expectations of clinicians, made me examine other modalities when I became a radiology incharge in a larger set-up (after having bid farewell to a close ‘friend’ with whom I started a MRI centre from scratch-over 7 years ago. ).
Once one is responsible for all modalities, one has to .(.as Francis Bacon said)… to apply the understanding..to a fresh understanding of particulars.
When coming to examining the particulars, one has to go back to collected memories of learning. In school we were taught about Least Common Multiple.
What should be the threshold for scanning?
In a setting where every clinician feels (erroneously) that they do better Ultrasound than radiologists, one can pick up the liver-normal and abnormal, and see how they approach focal and diffuse liver diseases, in different age groups.
The least common multiple can be their approach to a liver transplant case.
Ultrasonography(US) is the initial modality of choice for detection and follow-up of early and delayed complications from all types of liver transplantation. Vascular complications are the earliest to occur and may manifest as thrombosis or stenosis of the hepatic artery, portal vein, hepatic vein thrombosis as well as hepatic artery pseudoaneurysm. Biliary complications include leak or stricture. Neoplastic disease in the transplanted liver may represent recurrent neoplasia or post transplantation lymphoproliferative disorder. Parenchymal disease may take the form of a focal mass or diffuse parenchymal abnormality. Perihepatic fluid collections and ascites are common after liver transplantation. Knowledge of the surgical technique of liver transplantation and awareness of the normal US appearance of the transplant liver graft permit early detection of complications and prevents misdiagnosis (2).
If one can set the parameters of the ultrasound-doppler unit to tackle cases of Liver transplants, it can be a good bar to make the self-styled experts to match up against. The exercise also will cover the points discussed regarding approach to Imaging and reporting-
Try writing the medical biography of the patient through the radiological perspective rather than just a report.
See blog : Is there any change in Management.

Video traces of Portal vein and hepatic artery
{rokbox title=|Portal Vein Doppler| thumb=|http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/R4W7-Rcn0SQ/default.jpg| size=|425 373| album=|demo|}http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4W7-Rcn0SQ{/rokbox}
{rokbox title=|Hepatic Artery Doppler| thumb=|http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/H9EQsaKk5jU/default.jpg| size=|425 373| album=|demo|}http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9EQsaKk5jU{/rokbox}
Images and Videos: Courtesy: Dr. Anuj Mishra, MD, FRCR, Consultant and Head,
Department of Radiology, Organ Transplant Centre, Central Hospital Tripoli.
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The Normal Hepatic artery |
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Doppler wave form |
Rapid systolic upstroke with Continuous forward diastolic flow |
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Acceleration time |
Less than 80 msec |
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Resistive Index |
Below 0.7 |
Acceleration time-Represents the time from end diastole to the first systolic peak
Resistive index=PSV-PDV/PSV
PSV: Peak Systolic Velocity, PDV: Peak Diastolic velocity.(Source: Ref 2)
Of causes and nature
Standardizing and setting the bar to one such topic (the post transplant hepatic artery in this case) can help standardize many things in the department and also keep the ‘self-styled experts’ at bay.
Remembering Francis Bacon again-His enduring place in the history of philosophy lies in his single minded advocacy of experience as the only source of valid knowledge and in his profound enthusiasm for the perfection of natural science.
We as radiologists , can view ourselves as natural scientists.
Bacon’s hope for a new birth of science depended not only on vastly more numerous and varied experiments but also the use of a new method-tables of presence, of absence and of degree-to establish the true causes of phenomena (the subject of Physics-as the Doppler Effect remembering Christian Andreas Doppler) and the true ‘forms’ of things (the subject of metaphysics-the study of the nature of being) studied and illustrated as to why some experts were interested in “ironing-with-the-probe”.
Notes and suggested further reading:
- Kenneth Myers and Amy Clough: Making Sense of Vascular Ultrasound-Page 6
- Crossin JD, Muradali D, Wilson SR: US of Liver Transplants: Normal and Abnormal Radiographics 2003;23:1093-1114.
Average user rating from: 1 user(s)
Reviewed by Dr. Sridhar V February 22, 2010

Dr. Sridhar V
said:
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... Thank you Dr.Prashant for this nice write up In fact I could refresh my knowledge of Doppler.Many thanks. Fortunately or unfortunately I do not get Cases of Liver transplant doppler studies so I am not able to express much.Majority of my cases are cirrhosis of liver with portal hypertension/Portal vein thrombosis and none of the ref physicians/surgeons came out with their doppler knowledge Of course in Chennai at least 5 institutes have undertaken Liver transplant surgery.If any member of Iradix happens to be in Corporate Hospitals doing Doppler studies for liver transplant etc,they can share their experiences regarding Liver transplant surgeons in depth knowledge of Doppler studies and to what extent they interfere in day to days Radiologist's routine. |
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Alok Varshney
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... I think interpretation of even obstetric doppler will prove to be a graveyard for many clinicians/ obstetricians and radiologists. I know a cardiologist who has been doing carotid dopplers for years now, having learnt it in a premier institute. Funny that for the last 4 years, all of his patients have 'diffuse atheromatous disease'. My personal standardisation bar is renal doppler. One who can do a good renal doppler (with traces from main renal arteries) can do almost everything else right. |
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Dr. Sridhar V
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... Why a radiologist never poaches other branches of medical field ? Radiologist does not practice clinical Radiologist never reports ECG Radiologist never reports echo cardiogram said to be domain of Cardiologists. Radiologist never practices Otho or Obstetrics etc etc Since interventional radiology is nothing but radiologically solving the problems both diagnostically and therapeutically why should any third person grumble ? Why should every time the radiologist be answering to non radiologists about principles of radiology ? What makes Radiologist Submissive ?? |
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Virupaksha Joshi
said:
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... "What makes the radiologist submissive?" asks Dr.Sridhar. Does he have a choice? Can he afford to be aggressive, unless of course he is David Sutton or Dr. Scott Atlas? |
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Alok Varshney
said:
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... Why radiology is poached upon? I think the answer can range from an urge to upgrade reimbursement by doing a simple diagnostic procedure (read ironing with the probe) to genuine frustration with the radiologists who consistently misdiagnose. If one regards clinicians as adversaries, one can always indulge in 'intimidation through knowledge'. |
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ANUJ mishra
said:
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... Thanks Dr. Prashant. I feel and hope everyone agrees that transplant radiology and interventions is specialized practice and not meant for the physicians or transplant surgeons. In my personal experience, there is one internationally acclaimed liver transplant surgeon from Germany who seem to have an excellent theoretical knowledge of hepatic CT scans, transplant dopplers and traces. But when I diagnosed a hepatic artery occlusion or portal vein thrombosis post-liver transplant, he looked quite surprised and hesitant to re-explore. But the operative findings have always proved me right. To the extent that now he believes me blindly and also takes my suggestions seriously. And that's how we have been able to save so many lives and liver grafts! Teamwork is more important than self-gratification. And we must never let our focus out of sight - "patient first". |
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Dr. Sridhar V
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... Disappointment! Disappointment! Disappointment! Dr.V.J sir 100% I agree what you said Since Iam neither David Sutton nor Dr. Scott Atlas,I have to be content by being submissive. I can always question myself why radiologists are submissive ,especially those in private set ups and I already knew the answer that I don't have other alternative and that it is losing battle. That means even if Iam questioned by non radilogist why Iam ignorant of basics of radiology ( while nonradiologist has mastered the art)...I have no answer.I continue to be silent.Silence is Golden! Dr.Alok 'Intimidation through knowledge works' provided other party is sane and willing to listen Dr.Prashant Poaching of Radiology disappoints us.every time I have to prove one- upmanship.Is it not sickening that you have to prove everytime that you are better radiologist than the so called nonradiologist radiologist.It disturbs you mentally and also it disturbs your routine |
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Anuj Mishra
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... Hey Prashant, I would like to know everyone's opinion on a patient coming with obstructive jaundice at hilar level obstruction with dilated right & left ducts on ultrasound but no clear identifiable mass at biliary confluence. Even MRCP and CT scan does not help, except showing the level of biliary obstruction. So what do we tell the surgeons or physicians? To stent or to operate?? |
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Alok Varshney
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... If there is no history suggesting possibility of a benign stricture (previous surgery/ ulcerative colitis/ cholangitis etc), malignant etiology (choalngiocarcinoma) is generally the provisional diagnosis. If imaging fails to reveal the presence of mass at confluence, the next step would be to do an ERCP and brush cytology. Brush cytology can sometimes reveal atypical cells consistent with cholangio (but more often not). So the characteristics of stricture on ERCP are assessed - basically shouldering, irregularity of margins and such. Depending on the site of stricture, possibility of resection is assessed ( regional involvement and nodal status are required to complete the picture), else stent placement is done. Generally gastro people put stent first to relieve obstruction and think about resection later. |
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Anuj Mishra
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... thanks drs. prashant & Alok, Unfortunately none of the imaging modalities can reliably characterize and confirm the underlying type of disease in such patients. Biopsy is unreliable and sheer waste of time and effort. Tissue sampling is non-confirmatory and can ignore a potentially resectable malignancy. ERCP is not able to differentiate between benign and malignant stricture in case of hilar obstruction, as it does for low obstructions. In this scenario, judicious approach is to resect all such lesions and provide means for biliary decompression. We follow this protocol in our institution and have seen low morbidity and mortality. |
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Feedback from clinician is very importantn"Disease dont follow textboooks nowsda...
